Curse

shoyon456 · Jan 19, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

No, that's not the case. The Live Team is expanding by one person. This person is not being moved away from the GW2 development team, but will be a new addition to the company.

Haha, wow I'm surprised that that seemed worth replying to Regina.

Thanks for shutting down all hope, /winthread

Of course, thank you for shutting down any hype too and being very specific on that.

Gun Pierson · Jan 19, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

No, that's not the case. The Live Team is expanding by one person. This person is not being moved away from the GW2 development team, but will be a new addition to the company.

Actually I think that's a good move. Bring in some fresh blood and use GW1 as a testing ground to develop their skills and to get to know the Anet approach etc. A junior would be trained and If it's already a senior game dev, I'm sure he still can gather and share experience.

snaek · Jan 20, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Perhaps you should read Linsey's explanation of what it takes to make a "simple" change to the game. Even if you don't read this wall of text, the fact that it IS a wall of text will tell you that implementing anything isn't as "simple" as writing a bit of code.

thats totally unrelated and i dun see any reason for u to bring up that quote by lindsey

the person said he doesnt think it should take 4months for 2 ppl to add more storage...

and u give him a quote from lindsey sayin that a completely new area would require at least 20 ppl...

so how r these related again?

new storage =/= new area

and a lot of wut she mentioned involves creating completely new content

im perfectly fine with new instances reusing old content
(content as in old textures, enemy models, etc, etc)
though quite frankly i still do not expect/nor really want it

hell a ton of the eotn "content" are jus rehashes

new storage shouldnt involve any kind of content creation or would be at a very minimum (depending on wut kind of storage update it is)
it mostly jus involves coding
...not that the coding is easy or simple in any way

Stuart444 · Jan 20, 2009, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

it mostly jus involves coding

...wow, then I wonder what Linsey does all day ¬_¬

SerenitySilverstar · Jan 20, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

new storage shouldnt involve any kind of content creation or would be at a very minimum (depending on wut kind of storage update it is)
it mostly jus involves coding
...not that the coding is easy or simple in any way

Unless you understand the business side of game creation, software programming, the integration of that business AND coding into change, (the quote I posted, while not relating to storage, was to show you an EXAMPLE of what it takes to push through any type of game change), then you can't possibly understand the time or effort involved.

For Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake, when they say "it takes XYZ and it's not as easy as you think", just take their word for it. They're not lying for ishts and giggles.

natuxatu · Jan 20, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I still don't understand why they would think people would be exctied about more storage. Sure people might want more storage but I'm sure it's not most people top 10 list. If they are going to take more time inbetween to tackle bigger things, then why not oh I don't know.. an AH of some sort... new skills... new areas to explore.. new armor.. storage is shrug worthy..

I think they should not just let this game die off because what if Guild Wars 2 flops for whatever reason.. they're going to want to have Guild Wars going strong.. so it would make sense to continue to release other expansions or what have you.. maybe an expansion for Nightfall and one for Factions that unlocks more of the area like EotN did for Tyria..

I'm a fan of Guild Wars and they really did well but after EotN it's like they've just given up for the most part. Anyway I'm done. Hopefully people who still play are "excited" about all this "new content" though I'd hardly call it that.

Master Knightfall · Jan 20, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

I'm all for more elite gear for pve only. Like some +10% haste mod for where hps would go or +20%^50 stuff. I'm really bored with the same ole mods going on mostly the same old gear. There's not enough MODDABLE skins in the game. You get a few in Nightfall and that's about it that are worthy buying and modding. I'd like to see versions of greens that are moddable that drop off the same mobs and sometimes they are moddable and sometimes not. Just for some variance and make farming more fun and worth it instead of just farming for ectos.

snaek · Jan 20, 2009, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Unless you understand the business side of game creation, software programming, the integration of that business AND coding into change, (the quote I posted, while not relating to storage, was to show you an EXAMPLE of what it takes to push through any type of game change), then you can't possibly understand the time or effort involved.

For Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake, when they say "it takes XYZ and it's not as easy as you think", just take their word for it. They're not lying for ishts and giggles.

i never said it was easy...

Quote:

was to show you an EXAMPLE of what it takes to push through any type of game change)

no...not any...a very specific example

in no way should a storage update be compared to the likes of a sorrows furnace-type update
edit: to expand on the obvious...
bug fixes and skill nerf updates have released within an hour...
so in no way should u compare in likeness, every single dam update to a content-based update

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart444

...wow, then I wonder what Linsey does all day ¬_¬

i had to state the obvious because apparently serenity doesnt understand the difference between an update that involves mostly only coding, and an update that delivers new content (i.e. artwork)

bj91x · Jan 20, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Just because an update doesn't require new artwork, level design, etc. and is "mostly only coding", doesn't mean that it is quick and easy. While I'm not a programmer, I did have a hand in game creation where I messed with "mostly only coding". In addition, I work in the game industry where I see first hand just how much work, time, money, and people something that is "mostly only coding" can eat up.

While I won't go into long details due to many reasons, I'll just simply say that I find it very offensive when people who don't know about the work required for these things claim to talk like it takes very little work. Just the fact that you think coding is most of the work kind of ticks me off.

zwei2stein · Jan 20, 2009, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Okay, here is Me changing one line of code:

1 minutes - change.
30 minutes - modifying test cases and running them.
15 minutes - documenting, submitting to source control, solving merger issues.

Coleague - 15 mins, review
Coleague - 1 hour, new build for Assembly Test enviroment.
Coleague - 2 hours, deployment of new build

Tester - modifyng his test scenarios - 1 hour
Tester - 1 manday - running terst scenarios.

Coleague - 2 hours, obtaining permission to push new build to System Test enviroment
Coleague2 - 2 hours, pushing new build to STE.

Tester - 5 mandays of STE tests

Coleague - 2 hours, obtaining permission to push build to Pre-Prodution enviroment
Coleague3 - 1 manday, pushing new build to PPE

Tester - 5 mandays of PPE tests

Coleague - 2 hours, obtaining permission to go to Production Enviroment.
Coleague3 - 2 mandays of putting build on PE.

No kidding, it takes almost one month to change one line of code if you are *really* serious about not messing up. And I did not put there half a month work that should happen before that. But again, were not making games.

Teknikaali · Jan 20, 2009, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

No kidding, it takes almost one month to change one line of code if you are *really* serious about not messing up. And I did not put there half a month work that should happen before that. But again, were not making games.

So true. You can't just slap a bit of code here and there and publish it right away. It really needs to be tested to avoid all kind of bugs etc.. It takes time

Ahh, almost got distracted of all the coding talk..

I really wait for this update! At the moment I'm running my main character (Lily Evangelia, Ritualist) with 6 storage characters and 1 for PvP..
6 storage characters.. wait what? This is where the storage update comes along! I can actually have more playable (if I wanted to..) characters in my use when I wouldn't need to use them for storaging jobs.
A big thank you for the developer to still continue updating and patching a free of monthly fees game

I'm really eager to see how my 2 Charr Bags will be modified!

Forgotton200 · Jan 20, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

I know the things that are listed isn't all the update that's coming so I hope a name change will be available. I'd pay up to $20 for a single name change.

Stuart444 · Jan 20, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

While I won't go into long details due to many reasons, I'll just simply say that I find it very offensive when people who don't know about the work required for these things claim to talk like it takes very little work. Just the fact that you think coding is most of the work kind of ticks me off.

meh, more or less how I feel. I may not be in the games industry but I certainly know its not at all very little work by any means

Arduin · Jan 20, 2009, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

No kidding, it takes almost one month to change one line of code if you are *really* serious about not messing up. And I did not put there half a month work that should happen before that. But again, were not making games.

Good thing you peeps are paid per hour, instead of paid per lines of codes rewritten

snaek · Jan 20, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bj91x

Just because an update doesn't require new artwork, level design, etc. and is "mostly only coding", doesn't mean that it is quick and easy. While I'm not a programmer, I did have a hand in game creation where I messed with "mostly only coding". In addition, I work in the game industry where I see first hand just how much work, time, money, and people something that is "mostly only coding" can eat up.

While I won't go into long details due to many reasons, I'll just simply say that I find it very offensive when people who don't know about the work required for these things claim to talk like it takes very little work. Just the fact that you think coding is most of the work kind of ticks me off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

not that the coding is easy or simple in any way

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i never said it was easy

how many times do i have to say that i kno its not easy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

No kidding, it takes almost one month to change one line of code if you are *really* serious about not messing up. And I did not put there half a month work that should happen before that. But again, were not making games.

so 10lines of code takes 10 months?
and 100lines of code takes 100 months (8 years)?

yeeeaaaaaaaa.......no

(no wonder gw2 is takin so long...it has a whole 66 lines of code .___.)

again u guys r tryin to generalize examples for every single situation
the point is that every different situation will be slightly different in time/effort
and i dun think a storage update should take 4 months (depending on wut it is, since they didnt tell specifics)

but if it does, which may be very true, then i do no think it would be worth it
(again depending on wut it is--in my post a few pages back, i said its only worth it if its the end-of-all-storage-problems update)

edit: btw, im not sayin ur wrong
im jus saying that 1 line of code taking 1 month to do is not always a good indication of how long 100 lines of code will take

Tha Axod · Jan 20, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

its not the coding that takes so much time
it's the discussion about what to change
whether or not to change a skill, and in what way
or how much to expand our storage
it brings a lot off stuff with it, like when changing skills, they need to check if it doesn't add another overpowered skill or something like that

snaek · Jan 20, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

@tha axod
you bring up a very valid point

but the truth to the matter is, the gw community provides many viable solutions to the current problems of gw (from skill balance to trivial things like storage)
(despite there -also- being tons of non-viable solutions...jus gotta be able to filter them out)

but it is anets fault if they will not at least take into consideration the opinion of the gw community

iirc izzy is already influenced by a certain part of the gw community
but he is either too busy or too stubborn or too lazy (or wutever the reason) to bother to implement even half of the suggested changes

Kattar · Jan 20, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

how many times do i have to say that i kno its not easy?

You can say it's not easy all you want - but the rest of your posts imply that it's simple.

Izzy is influenced by a certain part of the community in the same way all MMO's are influenced by a certain part of the community. Does Blizzard read every thread on the WoW forums? No. They know who to listen to, they know who drives the game, they know what group of people create the meta, especially when it comes to PvP. ANet is following the same example.

I don't see why people have such a problem with that. Perhaps the disconnect between the average player and the game-changing player is too great. Unfortunately, I see no easy way to bridge that gap.

snaek · Jan 20, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by katsumi

You can say it's not easy all you want - but the rest of your posts imply that it's simple.

no, im sayin that its simple compared to the likes of a sorrows furnace-type update
or simple enough that it shouldnt take 4 months to complete

not that its jus "simple"

and i dun have a prob wit anet only listening to a select group of ppl
but like i said, i think that izzy doesnt even implement many of the suggestions from wut i've heard from various ppl

a recent example being someone advised him not to change order of the undead
but he did anyways...
only later to revert it back

Fril Estelin · Jan 20, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

no, im sayin that its simple compared to the likes of a sorrows furnace-type update
or simple enough that it shouldnt take 4 months to complete

You need to stop talking and start reading carefully: not only is the storage update probably going to require quite some work (as it's a feature that is lying deep down into the code and hasn't been touched in a long while), but most importantly this is only one of the things they're working on udirng the next four month. In addition to the other stuff they're not mentioning, there are skill-balancing (not too heavy on the coding I guess) and Canthan New Year. So overall it's a lot of work for a three people team (look at zwei2stein's example and multiply this by a few dozen times and you're even close to the kind of complexity of games in terms of how many people are involved, look at an earlier post mentioning Linsey's description of the job of creating a new zone).